2011 w/ 2.9l Stage 1 Whipple Surging issues

[2011SilverScab]

Hi everyone, just had a Stage 1 2.9l Whipple kit w/ custom (Non-Dyno but Datalogged) Tune installed on my Gen 1 SCAB. Been loads of fun at the low and high end but the mid range of throttle response has been troublesome (Video Attached).

In the mid range of throttle it hesitates/cuts power and cant decide what it wants to do, shop called it boost surge. They said to keep driving it as the PCM relearns but with around 150 miles on the tune thus far its still there.
In the video im keeping the pedal at a steady and consistent ~1/4 -1/3rd throttle and all the hesitation and change in rpm/boost is from the truck.

I don't want to list any names because Ive had absolutely no issues with the shop or the tuning guys willingness to help out and im bringing it by Monday but a second opinion/input can never hurt especially since this is my first venture into forced induction and it'd help to learn a thing or two.

Symptom Notes:
- Exhaust tips are fairly sooty/carbon caked now since blower install (Dont know if this is normal but this wasnt at all the case when it was NA).
- Intermittent clunking noise from front end at low speeds and when setting off from a stop (Thinking this could be IWE related as i recently had a line go bad on me and vacuum system is big part of the kit)
- (Issue pre blower install but now more frequent) - Radiator/engine cooling fans kick into high and stay on as long as AC is on, previously had this fixed by topping off the freon and replacing an AC Pressure transducer but it was intermittent before the Whipple and is now every time i turn the AC on.


View attachment IMG_6877.mp4

Any help is appreciated!
Thanks

 

[MurderedOutSVT]

Whoa. That sounds awful. I'm procharged and sometimes it will surge at idle but never had it surge like that under acceleration.

Assuming the plugs were changed in favor of the blower friendly temp range? Not sure why the tips would be dirty, unless the fuel has been questionable

Probably time for a retune

 

[2011SilverScab]

Whoa. That sounds awful. I'm procharged and sometimes it will surge at idle but never had it surge like that under acceleration.

Assuming the plugs were changed in favor of the blower friendly temp range? Not sure why the tips would be dirty, unless the fuel has been questionable

Probably time for a retune

I had the plugs changed out to NGK 6510s about 3k miles before the blower install to prepare for it since they were due for a replacement anyway, as far as regapping them or anything for the blower to my knowledge the shop didn't touch them.

Don't think fuel is bad as prior to the whipple i ran a 93 octane tune with zero issues, I think it may be running way rich as it backfires on a rev.

Definitely agree, im dropping it off again first thing Monday and will try to get one of them in the passenger seat on a drive along so i can make sure they know whats going on. Dunno how they'd miss this if they took it on a test drive.

If anything its reassuring to hear others tell me im not overthinking this and it that somethings definitely up.

Thanks

 

[MurderedOutSVT]

I had the plugs changed out to NGK 6510s about 3k miles before the blower install to prepare for it since they were due for a replacement anyway, as far as regapping them or anything for the blower to my knowledge the shop didn't touch them.

Don't think fuel is bad as prior to the whipple i ran a 93 octane tune with zero issues, I think it may be running way rich as it backfires on a rev.

Definitely agree, im dropping it off again first thing Monday and will try to get one of them in the passenger seat on a drive along so i can make sure they know whats going on. Dunno how they'd miss this if they took it on a test drive.

If anything its reassuring to hear others tell me im not overthinking this and it that somethings definitely up.

Thanks

Definately should not backfire. Yeah, you seriously need to take the installers with you to see whats up. While its true the pcm needs to learn the new setup, most of that should have been handled with a tune.

What its doing.... That ain't right

 

[W0n70n]

Did you ever end up seeing this resolved? I'm curious what the cause ended up being. The only times I have had issues with part throttle was unmeasure air leaking after the MAF from a hose clamp on the intake that was out of alignment. I know the vacuum lines going to the bypass valve are a big thing and it's possible it's causing the bypass valve to be opening and closing causing you to go in and out of boost causing ridiculous surging issues. Hope it's all good tnough.

 

[MTF]

I had the plugs changed out to NGK 6510s about 3k miles before the blower install to prepare for it since they were due for a replacement anyway, as far as regapping them or anything for the blower to my knowledge the shop didn't touch them.

Don't think fuel is bad as prior to the whipple i ran a 93 octane tune with zero issues, I think it may be running way rich as it backfires on a rev.

Definitely agree, im dropping it off again first thing Monday and will try to get one of them in the passenger seat on a drive along so i can make sure they know whats going on. Dunno how they'd miss this if they took it on a test drive.

If anything its reassuring to hear others tell me im not overthinking this and it that somethings definitely up.

Thanks

If the Tuner you're using is using HPTuner software to do the Tune, I can tell you right now it's never going to work right.
HPTuner never was able to correctly hack the SCT file format into HPTuner for "A Supercharged GEN I Raptor"!!!

I believe there were three SC Raptors that generated their engines using HPTUNER software.

Right now, the only reliable Tune for you is JDM using the SCT file format and handheld device.
Everyone that switched to JDM had nothing but good things to say!!!
Yes, there are others like 5Star.
Livernois is another one.

And a shout out to @W0n70n, to point out the vacuum lines for the bypass valve.
After ruling out that there are no vacuum leaks anywhere and/or kinked hoses.
Whipple has had people reverse the lines in some cases.

Also, when gaping the plugs for Supercharging they should be, .30 for Stage I and .28 for Stage 2
If you had them installed before Supercharging they might have gap them at .40 or more.

 

[2011SilverScab]

Did you ever end up seeing this resolved? I'm curious what the cause ended up being. The only times I have had issues with part throttle was unmeasure air leaking after the MAF from a hose clamp on the intake that was out of alignment. I know the vacuum lines going to the bypass valve are a big thing and it's possible it's causing the bypass valve to be opening and closing causing you to go in and out of boost causing ridiculous surging issues. Hope it's all good tnough.

I believe so yes, I took it back to the shop where they datalogged it and revised the tune. Since then its worlds better, as I recall they changed up some stuff with the throttle body table data.

Does feel a little less punchy on the low end then it was before but thats probably better for drivability, only issue im running into now is having too much fun trading miles per gallon for smiles per gallon but I aint complaining!

 

[2011SilverScab]

If the Tuner you're using is using HPTuner software to do the Tune, I can tell you right now it's never going to work right.
HPTuner never was able to correctly hack the SCT file format into HPTuner for "A Supercharged GEN I Raptor"!!!

I believe there were three SC Raptors that generated their engines using HPTUNER software.

Right now, the only reliable Tune for you is JDM using the SCT file format and handheld device.
Everyone that switched to JDM had nothing but good things to say!!!
Yes, there are others like 5Star.
Livernois is another one.

And a shout out to @W0n70n, to point out the vacuum lines for the bypass valve.
After ruling out that there are no vacuum leaks anywhere and/or kinked hoses.
Whipple has had people reverse the lines in some cases.

Also, when gaping the plugs for Supercharging they should be, .30 for Stage I and .28 for Stage 2
If you had them installed before Supercharging they might have gap them at .40 or more.

My tune is through 5Star but I did look into JDM, went with 5Star as my shop works with them alot. I did consider doing a "custom" Stage 2 upgrade down the line similar to JDMs upgrade package, figured Ford Racing or maybe even the Shelby Super Cobra Jet TB + 67lb/hr injectors, and the 3.25" pulley and a Dyno tune should be a heck of a lot of fun provided nothing blows up.

Vacuum line still does have my interest however despite all this being "resolved" as before the blower I had an issue with some IWE lines going loose which I got fixed but recently ive developed some new noises from the front end that il get looked at. Im thinking its shocks or something else suspension related but who knows, attached video is a decent example but its worst when coming to a stop or accelerating.


View attachment raptor noises.mp4

I also spoke to the shop regarding plugs and apparently brand new plugs was included in the labor cost for the install so ideally shouldn't be an issue there.

Thanks

 

[2011SilverScab]

Hey y'all,

Got the truck dyno'd with the revised tune and was pleasantly surprised with the power it made being a Stage 1 Kit (521whp/525wtrq), however the dyno shop had some comments/suspicions regarding the tune id wanted to run by y'all.

They mentioned it looked like the tune was a bit aggressive with the timing and they were seeing signs of detonation at the exhaust, we didn't see what the A/F ratios were etc as we didn't data log it but they said going off the dyno graph it looked like overall the tune was alright but could lose a few degrees of timing at the top end. I haven't worked with this shop before but have heard nothing but good things so figured itd be worth getting some fresh unbiased opinions.

One other thing of note is ive noticed the truck coughs out a puff of dark smoke on a coldstart, you can see sorta see it in the video I attached. I cant imagine this being normal or a good thing in any circumstance but wasnt sure exactly what would cause it.

Thanks in advance,


View attachment Startup.MOV

 

[Gumby]

One other thing of note is ive noticed the truck coughs out a puff of dark smoke on a coldstart

My factory Roush does the exact same thing on cold start. I just thought it was normal.