What my 2018 M3 and my 2020 Raptor have in common...

[tom wansor]

Not sure about weight, when I did my swap they were figuring out s65 into e46 swaps. S65 swaps were banned after that by few organizations

 

[Badgertits]

This thread is interesting but actually made me realize how much of an overrated ******** ripoff an M3 (most bimers really) is- let’s just pretend to be as neutral as possible about these 2 vehicles, how they have some similarities as well as some stark differences

- both vehicles represent the manufacturer’s interpretation of the “pinnacle” vehicles in its respective class, sports sedan/coupe & offroad sports truck.

- both are also mid-level “halo” vehicles for the brand

- both come @ similar MSRP c

- both are powered by turbo 6 cylinder engines

but now think about the differences in “bang for the buck” & also- how well did the manufacturers achieve their goal?

well- as far as representing the “pinnacle” of their classes, they both created/set the bar for the category (granted the M3 has a much longer history) - but @ this point the M3 is playing catch-up w/ their competition & trying to please the purists while also attracting the masses has resulted in a compromise. The Raptor on the other hand? Other way around- it sets the bar & others follow/play catch up.

both are definitely “halo” niche vehicles meant to drum up interest in the brand & bring people into showrooms- that being said, when’s the last time people were regularly paying well over msrp for an M3 lol?

similar price points...I LOL @ people who think a Raptor, even @ sticker, is overpriced. In its category it’s light in weight & dropped weight in its category, the M3? Gets fatter every year, but @ 3500 lbs not terrible that’s for sure. The Raptor has a fully AL body, the M3? Laughably despite being a sports car & “the ultimate driving machine”- still has yet to make the leap to a full AL body, lowly F150 though? Yep. The Raptor is the most powerful in its category- M3? No.

fords version of a sports oriented boosted 6 makes more power, more torque & weighs in same ballpark while also being significantly cheaper to produce. It’ll also run on any octane fuel, unlike the BMW. The Ford engine has been proven to make more power, more reliably, more often when modded too.

So you pay $70k for an M3 you get a sport sedan that is not the fastest, or the best handling, or the best looking of it’s competitors- I guess it does a lot of things OK. The Raptor @ $70k - is the most powerful, best looking, most well equipped, best performer in its category & in a lot of ways 1/2 ton trucks in general.

at that price point you get a vehicle w/ the same amount of doors but considerably more passenger room, a bed, tow 8,000 lbs, haul 1200 lbs (in the bed lol) drive offroad like an animal, more power, more torque, more options/tech, 2WD, AWD, 4Hi & 4LO, 3 more gears in the tranny vs BMW auto.... I mean shit I know ones a sports car ones a truck but you just get soooo much more for your $$$ on every level when you compare them against each other for same $$$$ but when you say how does the M3 fair against other sports sedans @ same price point (or lower) vs how the Raptor fairs against other trucks....woooahhh buddy does it start to look ugly for the BMW

this makes me feel better about spending the $$$ on the Raptor lol


I will say I am
Coming from V8 only trucks & cars & I still love the Raptor tt V6 & agree it sounds more sporty/exotic & performs that way too, reminds me of like the “Nissan GTR of trucks” sorta

 

[CigarPundit]

Just curious , did you own any of the previous Generations M3?

No. The F80 is my first M car, though I have a decent amount of seat time in the E92, as well as a couple of other M cars that my buddies have owned.

I understand your point about the low torque/high revving madness of the E92, and I agree that it has its appeal. But the F80 is no slouch in the revs, and IMO, the F80 is just so much better in every way that I wouldn’t trade it for an E92...ever. I absolutely love the F80, and I think it’s the best looking M3 they have ever made.

 

[Kaz109]

This thread is interesting but actually made me realize how much of an overrated ******** ripoff an M3 (most bimers really) is- let’s just pretend to be as neutral as possible about these 2 vehicles, how they have some similarities as well as some stark differences

- both vehicles represent the manufacturer’s interpretation of the “pinnacle” vehicles in its respective class, sports sedan/coupe & offroad sports truck.

- both are also mid-level “halo” vehicles for the brand

- both come @ similar MSRP c

- both are powered by turbo 6 cylinder engines

but now think about the differences in “bang for the buck” & also- how well did the manufacturers achieve their goal?

well- as far as representing the “pinnacle” of their classes, they both created/set the bar for the category (granted the M3 has a much longer history) - but @ this point the M3 is playing catch-up w/ their competition & trying to please the purists while also attracting the masses has resulted in a compromise. The Raptor on the other hand? Other way around- it sets the bar & others follow/play catch up.

both are definitely “halo” niche vehicles meant to drum up interest in the brand & bring people into showrooms- that being said, when’s the last time people were regularly paying well over msrp for an M3 lol?

similar price points...I LOL @ people who think a Raptor, even @ sticker, is overpriced. In its category it’s light in weight & dropped weight in its category, the M3? Gets fatter every year, but @ 3500 lbs not terrible that’s for sure. The Raptor has a fully AL body, the M3? Laughably despite being a sports car & “the ultimate driving machine”- still has yet to make the leap to a full AL body, lowly F150 though? Yep. The Raptor is the most powerful in its category- M3? No.

fords version of a sports oriented boosted 6 makes more power, more torque & weighs in same ballpark while also being significantly cheaper to produce. It’ll also run on any octane fuel, unlike the BMW. The Ford engine has been proven to make more power, more reliably, more often when modded too.

So you pay $70k for an M3 you get a sport sedan that is not the fastest, or the best handling, or the best looking of it’s competitors- I guess it does a lot of things OK. The Raptor @ $70k - is the most powerful, best looking, most well equipped, best performer in its category & in a lot of ways 1/2 ton trucks in general.

at that price point you get a vehicle w/ the same amount of doors but considerably more passenger room, a bed, tow 8,000 lbs, haul 1200 lbs (in the bed lol) drive offroad like an animal, more power, more torque, more options/tech, 2WD, AWD, 4Hi & 4LO, 3 more gears in the tranny vs BMW auto.... I mean shit I know ones a sports car ones a truck but you just get soooo much more for your $$$ on every level when you compare them against each other for same $$$$ but when you say how does the M3 fair against other sports sedans @ same price point (or lower) vs how the Raptor fairs against other trucks....woooahhh buddy does it start to look ugly for the BMW

this makes me feel better about spending the $$$ on the Raptor lol


I will say I am
Coming from V8 only trucks & cars & I still love the Raptor tt V6 & agree it sounds more sporty/exotic & performs that way too, reminds me of like the “Nissan GTR of trucks” sorta

Jesus I don't even know where to begin with this naive idiotic post lol. I have only seen you post twice both have been .........well let's just say there is always that one guy on every forum and you are him

 

[CigarPundit]

This thread is interesting but actually made me realize how much of an overrated ******** ripoff an M3 (most bimers really) is- let’s just pretend to be as neutral as possible about these 2 vehicles, how they have some similarities as well as some stark differences

- both vehicles represent the manufacturer’s interpretation of the “pinnacle” vehicles in its respective class, sports sedan/coupe & offroad sports truck.

- both are also mid-level “halo” vehicles for the brand

- both come @ similar MSRP c

- both are powered by turbo 6 cylinder engines

but now think about the differences in “bang for the buck” & also- how well did the manufacturers achieve their goal?

well- as far as representing the “pinnacle” of their classes, they both created/set the bar for the category (granted the M3 has a much longer history) - but @ this point the M3 is playing catch-up w/ their competition & trying to please the purists while also attracting the masses has resulted in a compromise. The Raptor on the other hand? Other way around- it sets the bar & others follow/play catch up.

both are definitely “halo” niche vehicles meant to drum up interest in the brand & bring people into showrooms- that being said, when’s the last time people were regularly paying well over msrp for an M3 lol?

similar price points...I LOL @ people who think a Raptor, even @ sticker, is overpriced. In its category it’s light in weight & dropped weight in its category, the M3? Gets fatter every year, but @ 3500 lbs not terrible that’s for sure. The Raptor has a fully AL body, the M3? Laughably despite being a sports car & “the ultimate driving machine”- still has yet to make the leap to a full AL body, lowly F150 though? Yep. The Raptor is the most powerful in its category- M3? No.

fords version of a sports oriented boosted 6 makes more power, more torque & weighs in same ballpark while also being significantly cheaper to produce. It’ll also run on any octane fuel, unlike the BMW. The Ford engine has been proven to make more power, more reliably, more often when modded too.

So you pay $70k for an M3 you get a sport sedan that is not the fastest, or the best handling, or the best looking of it’s competitors- I guess it does a lot of things OK. The Raptor @ $70k - is the most powerful, best looking, most well equipped, best performer in its category & in a lot of ways 1/2 ton trucks in general.

at that price point you get a vehicle w/ the same amount of doors but considerably more passenger room, a bed, tow 8,000 lbs, haul 1200 lbs (in the bed lol) drive offroad like an animal, more power, more torque, more options/tech, 2WD, AWD, 4Hi & 4LO, 3 more gears in the tranny vs BMW auto.... I mean shit I know ones a sports car ones a truck but you just get soooo much more for your $$$ on every level when you compare them against each other for same $$$$ but when you say how does the M3 fair against other sports sedans @ same price point (or lower) vs how the Raptor fairs against other trucks....woooahhh buddy does it start to look ugly for the BMW

this makes me feel better about spending the $$$ on the Raptor lol


I will say I am
Coming from V8 only trucks & cars & I still love the Raptor tt V6 & agree it sounds more sporty/exotic & performs that way too, reminds me of like the “Nissan GTR of trucks” sorta

I’m not looking to get into a flame war with you about the M3. You seem to enjoy bagging on it (this isn’t your first time), and that’s fine. Both the Raptor and the M3 are great vehicles for what they are, and I love both. But your suggestion that the Raptor is on the same level of luxury as the M3 is just nuts. The materials, fit, finish, tech, and performance of the M3 is way beyond the Raptor. The BMW infotainment system makes the Sync system in the Raptor seem so lame. And to this day, I think nothing can match the heritage, looks, performance, build quality, fun factor and practicality of the F80 M3. Taken as a whole package, I think it was (and is) best in class.

I know there are other players, and I’ve driven most of them, but I’d buy the M3 again in a heartbeat.

And I can’t resist pointing out the silliness of your analysis. The M3 manual transmission is freaking amazing, and the DCT is both bulletproof bonkers. The suggestion that the often-complained-about-for-good-reason 10 speed Ford/GM slushbox tranny in the Raptor is anywhere near the same level is just crazy. And obviously, these vehicles are apples and oranges, so the performance comparison just goes nowhere. But for what it’s worth, the S55 engine is an amazing piece of work and the Raptor’s EcoBoost certainly does not outperform it. Out of the box, the S55 makes in excess of 425 HP with 3 liters and mine is putting out well over 500 with little more than a tune. Oh, and it has a real liquid intercooler that can run full out all day long in the summer at Thermal without missing a beat. Stock. Try that with a Raptor and it’s lame air-to-air intercooler that most people replace.

 

[Saleen556]

I agree about the Raptor and M3 having similarities. I actually got rid of my 16 M3 for a 17 Raptor. Decided the Raptor would make a better daily driver here in Oregon. Those who knock the M3 have obviously not got to enjoy one.

 

[Kaz109]

No. The F80 is my first M car, though I have a decent amount of seat time in the E92, as well as a couple of other M cars that my buddies have owned.

I understand your point about the low torque/high revving madness of the E92, and I agree that it has its appeal. But the F80 is no slouch in the revs, and IMO, the F80 is just so much better in every way that I wouldn’t trade it for an E92...ever. I absolutely love the F80, and I think it’s the best looking M3 they have ever made.

I will begin my reply with this.....it's not just your opinion it's a fact. The F80 M3 is better in every measurable metric than any other M3 that has been produced. My post was strictly my personal opinion on why I prefer the NA M3 to the the current gen .

Just curious.....did you ever drive or own the Alfa Romeo gulia quadrifoglio ?

 

[Kaz109]

I’m not looking to get into a flame war with you about the M3. You seem to enjoy bagging on it (this isn’t your first time), and that’s fine. Both the Raptor and the M3 are great vehicles for what they are, and I love both. But your suggestion that the Raptor is on the same level of luxury as the M3 is just nuts. The materials, fit, finish, tech, and performance of the M3 is way beyond the Raptor. The BMW infotainment system makes the Sync system in the Raptor seem so lame. And to this day, I think nothing can match the heritage, looks, performance, build quality, fun factor and practicality of the F80 M3. Taken as a whole package, I think it was (and is) best in class.

I know there are other players, and I’ve driven most of them, but I’d buy the M3 again in a heartbeat.

And I can’t resist pointing out the silliness of your analysis. The M3 manual transmission is freaking amazing, and the DCT is both bulletproof bonkers. The suggestion that the often-complained-about-for-good-reason 10 speed Ford/GM slushbox tranny in the Raptor is anywhere near the same level is just crazy. And obviously, these vehicles are apples and oranges, so the performance comparison just goes nowhere. But for what it’s worth, the S55 engine is an amazing piece of work and the Raptor’s EcoBoost certainly does not outperform it. Out of the box, the S55 makes in excess of 425 HP with 3 liters and mine is putting out well over 500 with little more than a tune. Oh, and it has a real liquid intercooler that can run full out all day long in the summer at Thermal without missing a beat. Stock. Try that with a Raptor and it’s lame air-to-air intercooler that most people replace.

Very well put response, I didn't bother because with the post that he made to me it's clear these past reason and logical thinking. In my experience you don't try and reason with the village idiot you just laugh and move on

 

[CigarPundit]

I will begin my reply with this.....it's not just your opinion it's a fact. The F80 M3 is better in every measurable metric than any other M3 that has been produced. My post was strictly my personal opinion on why I prefer the NA M3 to the the current gen .

Just curious.....did you ever drive or own the Alfa Romeo gulia quadrifoglio ?

I drove it like six times. The dealer knew he was competing with the M3, so he gave me a lot of latitude. It's a fantastic car, when it's running. Good looking too, though to my eye not as good looking as the F80. Of course, there is no accounting for taste, and I know many would disagree on the aesthetics. However, the interior didn't compare, and I had no faith in Alfa's reliability or service--which has turned out to be a well-founded concern. In any event, I had wanted an M3 since the E30 came out when I was in high school. For lots of reasons that I won't bore you with, it never happened until 2017, when I put in a factory order for Euro Delivery. I haven't looked back since. It's an awesome ride that puts a smile on my face every time I drive it and look at it.

I totally get the E92 thing though. Fantastic car. Maybe some day I will try to find a nice one and add it to the collection. But I suspect I would buy an E30 first. There is just something about that car.

 

[CigarPundit]