Mandatory Recaro Seats and Blue Interior with 37’s?

[dixonk]

looks like a 98 delta Buick interior

What that interior needs is some clear plastic seat covers to complete the look. I bet my grandma will love the new birth control Raptor interior.


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[G-Train]

What that interior needs is some clear plastic seat covers to complete the look. I bet my grandma will love the new birth control Raptor interior.


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hopefully I can order the 37” without them next month when the order bank opens

 

[K223]

hopefully I can order the 37” without them next month when the order bank opens

Sometimes and if they allow an ala carte option for the 37 package it may be doable. Tends to cost more, but you get what you want. Porsche is the king of ala carte options from what I have seen.

 

[melvimbe]

I've been thinking about this and am forming a theory. It goes like this. Ford knows that adding 37s will reduce the reliability of the whole front end. If they make the option cheap and easy to get, they'll be spending lots of money on warranty. But if they marry the option to a bunch of expensive bullish, fewer will buy and the high profit on the fluff will help pay for warranty repairs. What they really did for the typical buyer is make upsizing to 37s easy. Drop them in, sell the stock shocks, buy new ones, and use Forskin to tell the truck how to program them. And that's to do it right. I'll bet that most folks can drop 37s in and not look back. The beauty of this from Ford's perspective is that they can give customers what they want, 37s, and not be on the hook financially when things break. What do you think? Could Ford possibly be this clever?

Sounds more complicated than it needs to be. If Ford's intention was to allow using 37s, but didn't want people to actually buy the 37s package, then they could have just designed it for 37s to fit (though not under warranty) without creating a 37s package. I believe this is exactly what GMC did with the hummer. They have advertised that you can easily fit 37s, but aren't providing that as an option. That said, I don't know how it effects the warranty.

Alternatively, why not price the 37s package to cover additional warranty costs, without hiding it by throwing in other options the customer doesn't want? Hard to say without seeing what the prices are yet, but I would bet that a lot of people would happily pay a bit more for the package, knowing that you aren't risking your Ford not covering your warranty, and you don't have to go through the hassle of acquiring new tires, wheels, shocks, and whatever else is needed on your own, without financing.

My guess is that Ford is including the recaro package because they want it to become a more common feature you see on Raptors, and they eventually create demand for it. It seems on the Gen 2, few people wanted it and it probably wasn't that popular. If a quarter of the '21 buyers end up with the recaro seats, then perhaps it becomes more of a 'must have' feature that buyers feel they need in order to keep up with the Jones, despite their personal lack of interest.


Unrelated....but sort of related, there's a TFL interview where they had the head designer of the Raptor on, for around 45 minutes. It's long and boring, but the general gist I got was this guy wasn't very in touch with the features that Raptor customers are interest in. He was proud of his design, but didn't really like many of the design features the truck has, but were included because of customer demand. For example, he felt like the shifter should be behind the wheel rather than in the center console, but knew that customers demanded a real shifter. I didn't watch the whole thing, but it explained many of the things that people are scratching their head about, such as the blue recaro seats.

 

[GordoJay]

Sounds more complicated than it needs to be. If Ford's intention was to allow using 37s, but didn't want people to actually buy the 37s package, then they could have just designed it for 37s to fit (though not under warranty) without creating a 37s package. I believe this is exactly what GMC did with the hummer. They have advertised that you can easily fit 37s, but aren't providing that as an option. That said, I don't know how it effects the warranty.

The warranty is the question. If you design it to fit 37s, the customer puts on 37s and breaks it, are you on the hook?

Alternatively, why not price the 37s package to cover additional warranty costs, without hiding it by throwing in other options the customer doesn't want? Hard to say without seeing what the prices are yet, but I would bet that a lot of people would happily pay a bit more for the package, knowing that you aren't risking your Ford not covering your warranty, and you don't have to go through the hassle of acquiring new tires, wheels, shocks, and whatever else is needed on your own, without financing.

That's exactly what I want. I'm hoping that by the time I'm ready to replace mine, in 2024 or so, that the options will be decoupled. Maybe by then they'll be comfortable that they understand warranty costs of the 37s. And maybe they'll have beefed up the weak link.

My guess is that Ford is including the recaro package because they want it to become a more common feature you see on Raptors, and they eventually create demand for it. It seems on the Gen 2, few people wanted it and it probably wasn't that popular. If a quarter of the '21 buyers end up with the recaro seats, then perhaps it becomes more of a 'must have' feature that buyers feel they need in order to keep up with the Jones, despite their personal lack of interest.

Could be. It could also be an attempt to make the 37 package more special and exclusive. I'm guessing if the R actually ships it will include the full 37 package, for the same reason.

Unrelated....but sort of related, there's a TFL interview where they had the head designer of the Raptor on, for around 45 minutes. It's long and boring, but the general gist I got was this guy wasn't very in touch with the features that Raptor customers are interest in. He was proud of his design, but didn't really like many of the design features the truck has, but were included because of customer demand. For example, he felt like the shifter should be behind the wheel rather than in the center console, but knew that customers demanded a real shifter. I didn't watch the whole thing, but it explained many of the things that people are scratching their head about, such as the blue recaro seats.

Gotta love engineers. I do. From an engineer's perspective, that fake shifter is offensive. It's like gluing a ***** on the Mona Lisa and saying that you improved it. It's strictly for looks and has zero functional value. Engineers hate that. It probably adds $500 to the price of the truck. He's thinking of what cool things he could do with that $500. And the cool things he could do design-wise in that space if that thing was gone. I know exactly how he feels. Har. The one thing I like about that shifter is that I can lock out gears on hills without having to move my right hand to the steering wheel or change my comfortable lounging position. Since the only time I do that is on steep winding roads when I need to control my speed, maybe everyone would be safer if I had to put both hands on the wheel. If you gave the engineers a free hand, performance would be through the roof and the amenities would be basic. Very basic. The only thing that would keep it from looking like 1964 inside is that stealing everything from the base fleet-truck F150 is cheaper. Telling the engineers that you want performance and then loading them down with a bunch of silly requirements that reduce performance frustrates them. Ask me how I know.

 

[dixonk]

.

My guess is that Ford is including the recaro package because they want it to become a more common feature you see on Raptors, and they eventually create demand for it. It seems on the Gen 2, few people wanted it and it probably wasn't that popular. If a quarter of the '21 buyers end up with the recaro seats, then perhaps it becomes more of a 'must have' feature that buyers feel they need in order to keep up with the Jones, despite their personal lack of interest.


.

I think lots of folks would have opted for the Recaros...if they weren’t blue. I like a blue truck. I love blue. Just not my interior.


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[Ryan Voight]

Love my recaros in my 19. Hate that I will have to part ways

 

[melvimbe]

The warranty is the question. If you design it to fit 37s, the customer puts on 37s and breaks it, are you on the hook?

Eh. Design is perhaps too ambiguous of a term. There's design in the sense that it's a definite feature, like the 37 package, or design in the sense that the wheel well was made larger than needed for 35 tires and happen to fit 37s. As an example perhaps, it's my understanding that the previous gen F150 did not fit 35s very well, but the current gen fits them much better, allowing for that size wheel and wider range of offsets. So is Ford responsible if a customer remove's the stock wheel and tire for aftermarket stuff that caused issues? It probably comes down legally to how much Ford talks about the ability to add aftermarket equipment and doesn't talk about it's effect on warranty.

That's exactly what I want. I'm hoping that by the time I'm ready to replace mine, in 2024 or so, that the options will be decoupled. Maybe by then they'll be comfortable that they understand warranty costs of the 37s. And maybe they'll have beefed up the weak link.

I guess I'm not following exactly how 37s is more of an unknown for warranty costs than other aspect of the truck. Is adding 37s really more likely to cause warranty issues than say the new rear suspension.

Regardless, I am hopeful that it doesn't take them 3 years to decouple the options

Could be. It could also be an attempt to make the 37 package more special and exclusive. I'm guessing if the R actually ships it will include the full 37 package, for the same reason.

I got the impression that having both 35 and 37 packages on the current model meant a significant amount of government regulation costs and testing...since they are two different vehicles in a way. The R would be a 3rd. If the have 35 and 37 versions of the R, that's four versions of what used to be one. While exclusivity may be part of it, I would guess costs would play a big role that it does when bundling recaros with 37s.

Gotta love engineers. I do. From an engineer's perspective, that fake shifter is offensive. It's like gluing a ***** on the Mona Lisa and saying that you improved it. It's strictly for looks and has zero functional value. Engineers hate that. It probably adds $500 to the price of the truck. He's thinking of what cool things he could do with that $500. And the cool things he could do design-wise in that space if that thing was gone. I know exactly how he feels. Har. The one thing I like about that shifter is that I can lock out gears on hills without having to move my right hand to the steering wheel or change my comfortable lounging position. Since the only time I do that is on steep winding roads when I need to control my speed, maybe everyone would be safer if I had to put both hands on the wheel. If you gave the engineers a free hand, performance would be through the roof and the amenities would be basic. Very basic. The only thing that would keep it from looking like 1964 inside is that stealing everything from the base fleet-truck F150 is cheaper. Telling the engineers that you want performance and then loading them down with a bunch of silly requirements that reduce performance frustrates them. Ask me how I know.

I don't know if this guy was an engineer or not. The interview was not really about about functionality, but the purely aesthetic design elements, such as the flag easter egg, materials used on the dash, and exterior color options.

But your point is well taken. I get that you don't need an actual shifter, but in the word's Long Duck **** (Sixteen Candles)...Now I have a place to put my hand.

 

[GordoJay]

I guess I'm not following exactly how 37s is more of an unknown for warranty costs than other aspect of the truck. Is adding 37s really more likely to cause warranty issues than say the new rear suspension.

They're bigger and heavier. They put more stress on the steering system and the front suspension. Those parts might or might not have been redesigned depending on cost goals and risk assessment. Depending on how accurate the assessment was, which parts got beefed up and which parts got reused, stuff may or may not hold up longer term in the real world.

Regardless, I am hopeful that it doesn't take them 3 years to decouple the options

Agreed. It could be a year+ to get data and a year- to design and implement the improvement. Two years. So the MY2023 mid-gen refresh is when we might see it. That might be in jeopardy if MY2021 is as short as it looks like it might be. MY2024 might be the mid-gen refresh. And if they make significant changes they might want real world data on whether the changes worked. So it might happen or it might not. Gas mileage will also be lower on 37s and they have CAFE averages to worry about, so they may be trying to limit the number of 37s shipped and are treating it as a halo option rather than as a volume option. I think for MY2021 and MY2022 you can assume that 37s will cost you nearly $10k unless you wanted the bundled options anyway.

I got the impression that having both 35 and 37 packages on the current model meant a significant amount of government regulation costs and testing...since they are two different vehicles in a way. The R would be a 3rd. If the have 35 and 37 versions of the R, that's four versions of what used to be one. While exclusivity may be part of it, I would guess costs would play a big role that it does when bundling recaros with 37s.

Exactly. They got rid of the SCAB and added the 37s. They still have two Raptor models that need full testing, separate testing, which is really expensive. Raptor R is a third model, and I can't imagine that Ford wants to spend the money to qualify two versions of that. Given that the R is the highest end model and 37s are a high end option, I think it's guaranteed that if it ships, the R will have the 37s and the frame that fits the spare. Recaros and stickers don't make it a new vehicle, but do play a cost role as they are very profitable.

I don't know if this guy was an engineer or not. The interview was not really about about functionality, but the purely aesthetic design elements, such as the flag easter egg, materials used on the dash, and exterior color options.

He's an engineer. I saw him in a video, might have been that one. Marketing guys are more fluent in general. They're also way better at hiding their opinions about things that they think are stupid. I'm a little surprised that Ford let him get in front of a camera.

 

[melvimbe]

Exactly. They got rid of the SCAB and added the 37s. They still have two Raptor models that need full testing, separate testing, which is really expensive. Raptor R is a third model, and I can't imagine that Ford wants to spend the money to qualify two versions of that. Given that the R is the highest end model and 37s are a high end option, I think it's guaranteed that if it ships, the R will have the 37s and the frame that fits the spare. Recaros and stickers don't make it a new vehicle, but do play a cost role as they are very profitable.

I think the first priority of the R is going to be matching/beating TRX in HP and 0-60. If that's too hard to do with 37s, then they will stick with 35s. I don't think that will be the case though, and as you pointed out, using 37s will be more premium and profitable for them.