DropBox / Portal Axles

[sabumaru]

ok first off : HYPOTATICAL disscusion

as some don't Run highspeed offroad
and more in market of oofroading in swaps or crawling

i noticed a MotorTrend doing a project car for Ultimate Offroad Adventure
YouTube Link


so it started me wondering
is this something for a Raptor ... when you are less in HighSpeed
but more into the slower motorsports ?

also offcourse it adds lift and will forinstance gives you the option to run bigger tires

Lets stay open minded
and look into what is possible .. not what was the heritage of the raptor..

example of a Landrover ::
Before

After

 

[KaiserM715]

I think that portal boxes on a Raptor would be a case of using the wrong tool for the job. The Raptor is already wide, adding portal boxes would make it about 3"+ wider per side. Most folks interested in rock crawling would have issues with the width, as the result would be about 14" wider (or more) than typical rock crawlers on the same trail.

The second issue would be the rear suspension. It already has issues with axle wrap. Add the increased torque from the gear box combined with the increased lever arm of the portal box and you would have serious issues. I think you would have to look at traction bars at the bare minimum but would be better off with a 4 link. Take a look at the SuperDuty that 4Wheel and Off-Road built in the video - link suspension in the front and rear.

You would be much better off starting with a Jeep.

 

[sabumaru]

I think that portal boxes on a Raptor would be a case of using the wrong tool for the job. The Raptor is already wide, adding portal boxes would make it about 3"+ wider per side. Most folks interested in rock would have issues with the width, as the result would be about 14" wider (or more) than typical rock crawlers on the same trail.

The second issue would be the rear suspension. It already has issues with axle wrap. Add the increased torque from the gear box combined with the increased lever arm of the portal box and you would have serious issues. I think you would have to look at traction bars at the bare minimum but would be better off with a 4 link.

You would be much better off starting with a Jeep.

yea i know what you mean.
when i was looking at the F250 beeing rebuild
they talked allot about axle wrapping .. and the reasoning to go 4 link on the back

does the solid front axle have any advantages there ?

 

[KaiserM715]

does the solid front axle have any advantages there ?

My guess is that solid axle would be easier to adapt than IFS and it would depend on how strong the IFS is (solid axles usually have a strength advantage). It would depend on how well the front suspension on the Raptor could resist the torsion that the portal box would put into the system. Most portal systems are indeed solid axle, but there are a few IFS setups, but they were designed specifically around it (Humvee, OshKosh, etc.).

 

[MTUH3]

Most portal axles, like the Hummer / Humvee have the brake calipers located to right off the differential. However, you can also take advantage of the portal hub to further increase gear reduction without going to a larger differential.

I agree with Kaiser, if you are looking a portale axles you would be better going to SFA and probably building off another platform. You can find a number of solid axles that are designed for portals. Not cheap, but probably a better option to go.

Also most IFS set ups have the differential set to one side of the truck, which gets tough because you might need to develop driver and passenger side parts. Can it be done? I think so, but a lot more time and money than I can invest.

Interesting thought though

 

[Darthyota]

Another big advantage to portal axels is that they will half the stress the drive train would normally see. Thats how something as big and heavy as a hmmv can run dana 35 axels

 

[sabumaru]

Most portal axles, like the Hummer / Humvee have the brake calipers located to right off the differential. However, you can also take advantage of the portal hub to further increase gear reduction without going to a larger differential.

I agree with Kaiser, if you are looking a portale axles you would be better going to SFA and probably building off another platform. You can find a number of solid axles that are designed for portals. Not cheap, but probably a better option to go.

Also most IFS set ups have the differential set to one side of the truck, which gets tough because you might need to develop driver and passenger side parts. Can it be done? I think so, but a lot more time and money than I can invest.

Interesting thought though

Yea i noticed the SFA versus IFS diffrences

Hummer has an full Indipent setup
Back end front
http://lh5.ggpht.com/-K7dspvEO_vw/UV1USWt219I/AAAAAAAEe40/8C2TVqJR85A/s1600/2001_2004_h1_013.jpg

So if yo create a new lowerarm
And a spindle / dropbox combo

You would change the axle angle up front
But increase the maximum uptravel

Toughts ??

 

[MTUH3]

The Hummer / Humvee does not have very much articulation. Its low center of gravity and wide base make it a platform your drive to "balance" on objects. Driving a hummer often involves having a wheel or two off the ground and relying on the TC and BTM to control traction (depending on MY).

The axles in the Hummer enter the geared hub above the wheel center (which allows them to have CTIS). In theory, you could design the geometry to keep some of the similar travel characteristics of the front end, but that will become an even bigger project.

The only way I see doing this is by designing the suspension system on a "bench" and modifying the truck around it. New differential, new axles, new a lot of stuff.

 

[sabumaru]

The Hummer / Humvee does not have very much articulation. Its low center of gravity and wide base make it a platform your drive to "balance" on objects. Driving a hummer often involves having a wheel or two off the ground and relying on the TC and BTM to control traction (depending on MY).

The axles in the Hummer enter the geared hub above the wheel center (which allows them to have CTIS). In theory, you could design the geometry to keep some of the similar travel characteristics of the front end, but that will become an even bigger project.

The only way I see doing this is by designing the suspension system on a "bench" and modifying the truck around it. New differential, new axles, new a lot of stuff.

Lot of abbriviations

But i see what you mean
Should have some one with CAT skillz and an enginering degree
Just see if he could build a digital prototype
And see what would be infalft to get it done

 

[Humvee21]

I think the best vehicle fit for you is a short wheelbase Unimog. It already has what you want, but the only downside is that it probably won't fit the garage. But let's face it, most vehicles with portal axles won't fit the garage unless it's a stock H1.

---------- Post added at 02:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:42 PM ----------

The Hummer / Humvee does not have very much articulation. Its low center of gravity and wide base make it a platform your drive to "balance" on objects. Driving a hummer often involves having a wheel or two off the ground and relying on the TC(Traction Control aka TT4) and BTM(Brake Throttle Modulation) to control traction (depending on MY).

The axles in the Hummer enter the geared hub above the wheel center (which allows them to have CTIS)(Central Tire Inflation System). In theory, you could design the geometry to keep some of the similar travel characteristics of the front end, but that will become an even bigger project.

The only way I see doing this is by designing the suspension system on a "bench" and modifying the truck around it. New differential, new axles, new a lot of stuff.

Hummer lingo translation