Brainstorming Potential IWE Solution

[Dan06]

One problem I see with a D60 type hub. How to connect the half shafts. I am out of the loop fabrication wise and rusty at drivetrain design.

Can you make a half shaft with a U-joint at one end and a CV joint at the other AND not have vibration?

I'd probably use a RCV axle with CVs on both ends or another custom setup.

RCV already makes CVs for the Dana 60.
http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/transmission-drivetrain/1208-8l-fixing-front-axle-upgrading-dodge-dana-60/

There's a few hurtles to jump or at least more parts needed such as:

*Have to match front brakes to new hub.

*Plus the 6x135 bolt pattern may be too small to even machine the hubs to. Therefore requiring a different one.

 

[phydough]

Just don't use 1977-1979 Dodge D44 5x4 1/2 "unit" bearings. I have piles of them out back.

I think the smallest D60 hub I have seen was 5x5 1/2. Maybe be easier to go with that and drill out rear axles if there is room on the flanges. More wheel choices that way too.

I am not happy with my front end anymore. Everything from the bushings outward went **** up at 78000 miles and I am on my 6th set of IWEs. I am even considering a SAS, but like driving on back roads fast. I still need 4WD for mud, snow and rocks, otherwise......snip snip.

 

[Dan06]

Just don't use 1977-1979 Dodge D44 5x4 1/2 "unit" bearings. I have piles of them out back.

I think the smallest D60 hub I have seen was 5x5 1/2. Maybe be easier to go with that and drill out rear axles if there is room on the flanges. More wheel choices that way too.

I am not happy with my front end anymore. Everything from the bushings outward went **** up at 78000 miles and I am on my 6th set of IWEs. I am even considering a SAS, but like driving on back roads fast. I still need 4WD for mud, snow and rocks, otherwise......snip snip.

No wasn't thinking Dodge, just an example I found quickly. Think I replaced 6 sets last year... I hate the 4x4 systems in these things. Smallest amount of stress and everything goes **** up. Not to mention the electronic systems make solutions for most things a pita.

I agree thats also the smallest bolt pattern I've seen.

 

[The Mav]

the current solution RCV has of having the front end constantly spin a bad idea? I've always wondered of the long term of those

Bad on the Axles, CVs, especially boots. Even more so on longer than stock travel applications which I'm running. Had boot problems in the past.

Long run ppl were worried about things further up line.

Nothing wrong with unit bearings IMO. especially with RCV axles. the front end is an open diff so it wont cause any issues really. It's not bad on the axles. or boots. IMO it's actually better for them to always be moving, instead of sitting still in one spot. many trucks have live front ends, including my ranger, and it hasnt had a single issue because of that fact. no need to get out of the truck to lock hubs, no IWE to fail, it's a win win.

 

[98infinity]

Nothing wrong with unit bearings IMO. especially with RCV axles. the front end is an open diff so it wont cause any issues really. It's not bad on the axles. or boots. IMO it's actually better for them to always be moving, instead of sitting still in one spot. many trucks have live front ends, including my ranger, and it hasnt had a single issue because of that fact. no need to get out of the truck to lock hubs, no IWE to fail, it's a win win.

I tend to agree I had an 03 f150 and it had the cv constantly spin as well. I never had a problem ever and I put 37s on it and ran the **** out of it.

My thinking is that because the design for the raptor was the iwe, would it now being all the time spinning make it worth having the risk vs reward kinda thing...

 

[Dan06]

Nothing wrong with unit bearings IMO. especially with RCV axles. the front end is an open diff so it wont cause any issues really. It's not bad on the axles. or boots. IMO it's actually better for them to always be moving, instead of sitting still in one spot. many trucks have live front ends, including my ranger, and it hasnt had a single issue because of that fact. no need to get out of the truck to lock hubs, no IWE to fail, it's a win win.

There's been a lot of discussion about this so I don't feel like retyping everything. Without the IWE under extreme stress, something will give. I would like to theorize it'd be the locking hub with one. Plus all the below things why RCV IWE Eliminators are bad. Rebuildable hubs would be handy to be able to swap out bearings. Haven't looked deeply into it yet. I'm open to options that would work, if anyone would like to chime in. Main reason for this thread is to weigh in rather the computer bypasses are a viable solution. I know people that can make the fabricated knuckle and hub possible. Their main concern was computer issues, which is where I'm starting.

On my mention of axles, cvs, and boots. I'm pretty sure I'm at the limits of what a CV can take anyway. Likewise, someone on top perch on a stock shock wouldn't want the axles always turning either.

When in 2WD, the IWEs unlock to allow your front wheels to spin freely. If you unlocked the IWEs and pushed your truck down a hill, you could hold your half-shafts (front axle shafts) and prevent them from spinning while the wheels are still turning.

When in 4WD, the IWEs lock to allow your drivetrain to turn your front wheels. If you locked the IWEs and rolled your truck down a hill, the half-shafts would spin in your hand and you wouldn't be able keep them from spinning.

Using this same analogy, if you push your truck down a hill and your IWEs are locked, your front wheeks are turning and your half-shafts are turning so your torsen diff is also turning as well as your front driveshaft. Each of these components have either gears or bearings that generate heat when rotated due to friction. Heat is generated due to inefficiency (friction) which is why you loose MPG. The more heat, the more inefficiency, the more MPG loss. Each truck MPG loss will be different and depend on the toerances in your components.

Okay now the fun part. Axles have a ring an pinion gearset which connects the driveshaft to the half-shafts. Like all gearsets, one gear is designed to be the drive gear (pinion in this case) and one is designed to be the driven gear (ring gear in this case). If you are in 2WD with this IWE elimination kit installed, you actually reverse this relationship (the ring gear becomes the drive and the pinion becomes the driven). What does this mean? Well this changes the way the gears are loaded. So what? Right.

Well a few things can happen, the wear pattern can change on the gears (and bearings) leading to increased wear, decreased life and increased noise over the compoent's life. This can also cause increased service intervals for the front axle and reduce the life of the oil.

 

[The Mav]

like mentioned, a lot of vehicles have a live axle. It's not as big of a deal as a lot of people want to think it is. having things constantly spinning doesn't drop your MPG much at all, if any. It's free spinning. it's not taking any power when in 2wd to spin itself. there is no load on any of those front end components if the transfer case is in 2wd. yes, there will be a slight increase in wear on some components, but nothing noticeable. having things spinning all the time can actually be good for them. because they don't sit without moving for long periods of time.

there are benefits to having things moving. Ring gear for example. would you rather have half the gear sit in oil, and half the gear sit dry for long periods of time? What if moisture builds up in there not half the gear is subject to possible rusting because it's not moving or getting any lubrication. List goes on. the benefits of a live axle far outweigh any subtle negatives to them. I'll take a live axle over vacuum hubs any day of the week.

even with the torsen front LS. it's not a big deal. people do it all the time. everyone is just scared about live axles for some reason, thinking they will lose 5 MPG and axles will wear out in a month. Not the case at all. Hell one axle in my truck is factory. been on there for 250k kms still. Only reason I replaced the other one is the threads were stripped when the axle nut went on crooked.

 

[Dan06]

People are entitled to their opinions and I'm not much for arguing unless I feel it's necessary, so I won't. However, there's been plenty of documented CV and Boot issues plus even the occasional broken axle. I've personally had several boots go and a few CVs. I carry a couple boot replacement kits and a quick temp boot velco cover, as well as two extra axles with CVs. That's not mentioning the spare IWEs and hubs. I'd prefer to not have my axles always rotating, just me. I feel by upgrading the hubs and replacing the IWEs with a superior mechanical device it'd strengthen the whole system. This route isn't for everyone, but it's what I want and believe is the best route for me if I can figure out the details.

 

[98infinity]

Anyone that actually have these rcv iwe eliminators can speak up that would be great

 

[Dan06]

These are good comments and posts. There's a good possibility I'll like opinions on which hubs to run down the line and related other necessities such as caliper and rotor ideas, but presently the central topic is regarding our electronics. We can argue the merits and demerits of hubs, locking hubs, IWEs, IWE Eliminators etc and so forth where I advanced the topic from

http://www.fordraptorforum.com/f9/alternative-iwe-f150-unit-bearing-38615/

Good questions in regards to the original post would be...

- Can the wheel speed sensor wiring for the rear be tied into, to replicate the signal for the front or are completely new sensors required?

- I've been away from the truck for an extended period of time so can't envision it, is there an easy way to tap the rear to install a second wheel speed sensor if necessary?

- When you pull the ABS fuse it should completely eliminate the the nannies, however I have known ppl to say the ABS still works under extreme circumstances. Where is it getting its info, if so?

If the computer can't be defeated we're basically stuck with oem stuff anyhow, taking away the need to discuss things more in depth.

Mainly will my ideas in the first post work? Imagine someone like @The Car Stereo Company or similarly electronically adept persons would be the ones with a lot of the answers...