Are there better options for pads and rotors then OEM?

[MZRaptor72]

All the videos I have seen, have the antilock brake system activated and they claim shorter stopping distance. I call BS on that.
One of the kits, maybe all, remove the rotor rock guard which would surely increase cooling and reduce brake fade. Add the SS brake line to add a bit more sensitivity
A braking test that launches the antilock brake system is no more than a tire traction test.

Just curious… how does the stainless brake line add more sensitivity? Are you saying rigid tube vs flex? I could see that i guess… just hadn’t heard that before.

 

[smurfslayer]

A braking test that launches the antilock brake system is no more than a tire traction test.

Actually it’s not, it’s a test of the antilock system’s effectiveness, your best braking is achieved in a ’tires howling in protest’, threshold braking action - that is, 100% of available braking just short of engaging ABS. Because ABS is a reactive system that cyclically releases and reapplies pressure; not to “stop you in a shorter distance” but to prevent brake lockup and an ensuing skid - aka a loss of vehicle control.

Just curious… how does the stainless brake line add more sensitivity? Are you saying rigid tube vs flex? I could see that i guess… just hadn’t heard that before.

The stainless lines don’t flex as much under brake line pressure, so there’s a more linear relationship to brake force applied via the pedal as it relates to the pressure applied to the caliper on the rotor.

 

[EricM]

Yep, a good driver can out brake ABS. It's a lot harder if you are turning, but in a straight line- it's not that hard to do.

Just watch ABS in slow motion and you can see it repeatedly locks up the tire before it releases it. As soon as it's locked, you go from a rolling coefficient of friction to a sliding coeffecient of friction- which is way less.

 

[smurfslayer]

Yep, a good driver can out brake ABS. It's a lot harder if you are turning, but in a straight line- it's not that hard to do.

THIS.

ABS is a God send for the casual starbucks drive thru crawler, who never actually does a full stop test session with the vehicle. The lesser skilled drivers are kept out of the ditch now.

Just watch ABS in slow motion and you can see it repeatedly locks up the tire before it releases it. As soon as it's locked, you go from a rolling coefficient of friction to a sliding coeffecient of friction- which is way less.

yeah, on smooth, dry pavement you can threshold brake to stop better than ABS with practice, but when pavement is wet, broken, uneven, or you’re turning, things get complicated more quickly. It’s a spring ritual on the bikes to take them out for a hard stop session, and I usually do the Rap the next time out. I’ve gotten unsettled over some road imperfections and had abs kick on, to my shame... :-/

It’s a love hate relationship. On one hand I love that all the electronic gizmos are there to bail me out in some hairy conditions. OTOH, we dumb down the truck to the least common denominator, which is a really poorly skilled driver.

 

[New recaros]

Yep, a good driver can out brake ABS. It's a lot harder if you are turning, but in a straight line- it's not that hard to do.

Just watch ABS in slow motion and you can see it repeatedly locks up the tire before it releases it. As soon as it's locked, you go from a rolling coefficient of friction to a sliding coeffecient of friction- which is way less.

Totally agree, but the braking tests in the videos are full ABS system activation

 

[New recaros]

THIS.

ABS is a God send for the casual starbucks drive thru crawler, who never actually does a full stop test session with the vehicle. The lesser skilled drivers are kept out of the ditch now.


yeah, on smooth, dry pavement you can threshold brake to stop better than ABS with practice, but when pavement is wet, broken, uneven, or you’re turning, things get complicated more quickly. It’s a spring ritual on the bikes to take them out for a hard stop session, and I usually do the Rap the next time out. I’ve gotten unsettled over some road imperfections and had abs kick on, to my shame... :-/

It’s a love hate relationship. On one hand I love that all the electronic gizmos are there to bail me out in some hairy conditions. OTOH, we dumb down the truck to the least common denominator, which is a really poorly skilled driver.

Those super sensitive brakes on icy roads suck.

 

[shigman]

Its why we need to see a KO2 with stock wheel test comparing new OEM brakes to new aftermarket. Swapping out some old OEM pads and rotors and putting anything in there will feel and perform better. If you're running 37" toyo, nitto, whatever on 20s thats a completely different situation. OEM brakes are designed for OEM setups (If they are good enough or not good enough is another thing). It is no different than comparing stopping distances with a Vette rocking cup 2 R tires and showing a massive improvement over stock brakes which were designed for sport 4s. We always talk about how the KO2s lack grip, well changing tires especially to 37s which lengthens contact patch will take advantage of better brakes easily.

Is anyone with a brake kit or upgraded pads still rocking stock wheels and tires?

Bear with me, I've been burned so many times over the years going off anecdotal reviews on message forums for car mods.

 

[New recaros]

Actually it’s not, it’s a test of the antilock system’s effectiveness, your best braking is achieved in a ’tires howling in protest’, threshold braking action - that is, 100% of available braking just short of engaging ABS. Because ABS is a reactive system that cyclically releases and reapplies pressure; not to “stop you in a shorter distance” but to prevent brake lockup and an ensuing skid - aka a loss of vehicle control.

Actually it is, considering the ABS system is a constant, tire traction is really all you are measuring in those tests in the videos.
Braking performance is very subjective. You want better feel, less peddle pressure, get SS brake lines and that not enough, get new calipers. If brake fade is your issue, increase cooling by removing the rock guard, slotted rotors, air deflectors better brake fluid etc. If you want shorter stopping distance learn to brake better and get tires with more traction.

 

[New recaros]

Its why we need to see a KO2 with stock wheel test comparing new OEM brakes to new aftermarket. Swapping out some old OEM pads and rotors and putting anything in there will feel and perform better. If you're running 37" toyo, nitto, whatever on 20s thats a completely different situation. OEM brakes are designed for OEM setups (If they are good enough or not good enough is another thing). It is no different than comparing stopping distances with a Vette rocking cup 2 R tires and showing a massive improvement over stock brakes which were designed for sport 4s. We always talk about how the KO2s lack grip, well changing tires especially to 37s which lengthens contact patch will take advantage of better brakes easily.

Is anyone with a brake kit or upgraded pads still rocking stock wheels and tires?

Bear with me, I've been burned so many times over the years going off anecdotal reviews on message forums for car mods.

You got it!!

 

[smurfslayer]

Actually it is, considering the ABS system is a constant, tire traction is really all you are measuring in those tests in the videos.
Braking performance is very subjective. You want better feel, less peddle pressure, get SS brake lines and that not enough, get new calipers. If brake fade is your issue, increase cooling by removing the rock guard, slotted rotors, air deflectors better brake fluid etc. If you want shorter stopping distance learn to brake better and get tires with more traction.

Got it. We should really just lock this, and all other braking threads and reference them all to you.