@ 430 hp and only 475 lb-ft....i guess the V8 in Raptor crowd will pipe down

[xrocket21]

I get it, you like V8's better

They sound SO good

 

[davidl81]

There is also MPG to consider in relation to CAFE, where I may be wrong but super duty trucks are excluded. A 7.3L NA gas engine is not going to be great there.

 

[EricM]

I get it, you like V8's better

They sound SO good

I like engines that are reliable because I keep my trucks for a long time. If I bought a new truck every 3 years- I would not care what was in it.

Yes, I'd prefer a V8 for the sound, but it's not a requirement. I own 5 vehicles and only two have V8s. Two have 6 cylinder EcoBoost engines, one has the 3.5L and one has the 2.7L. I know both of my EB engines are more likely to have issues than my other vehicle's engines, since they are comparatively complex and have a bunch of parts that can fail that my other vehicles simply don't have. They are also more stressed- notably higher cylinder pressures and associated bearing loads. I also know they might just go to 150K+ miles without any issues as well- Ford doesn't build junk engines like Fiat. However, I know with 100% certainty that my 2013 Raptor will never have a turbo failure. The secondary timing chain will never fail. The camshaft will never separate into multiple pieces. The 6.2L is not bulletproof, but it's a HELL of a lot closer to it than any EB engine ever made.

I know, you paid a lot of money for your truck and your just HAVE to defend the purchase decision to the bitter end- I get it. But damn man, it's like you have some weird hatred for any V8 engine and a belief that that no V8 can ever match up to a turbocharged 3.5L Ford Cyclone engine. The 3.5L EB is not special in any way- it's a 90 degree DOHC V6 with a ton of boost thrown at it. It gets marginally better fuel mileage than a V8 making the same power, simply because it has 2 less sets of cylinder rings dragging up and down at light engine loads. A V8 at the same boost level would outperform it by a good margin. Everything a V6 can do power wise, a larger V8 can do better. N/A to N/A the V8 wins. Boost to boost, the V8 wins. The old rule always applies, there is no replacement for displacement. All other things equal, the ONLY advantage the V6 has is better fuel mileage at light loads and a smaller package.

So back to the can Ford hop up the 7.3L question. Yes they can. Can they out-power the 3.5L EB with the 7.3L N/A? Yes, even without boost. It still may not feel as powerful at the low end of the RPM range due to a lack of boost though. The low end boost is what people like about EB engines. Can they make the 7.3L destroy the 3.5L V6 in every performance aspect by putting some boost to it as well? Yes they can. Do we need that much power in a truck? Personally, I don't think so. I'm fine with my N/A 6.2L and it's lowly 410 HP. I've driven tuned Gen 2 trucks and they leave me with no desire to own one whatsoever, even though they are certainly faster and more powerful. I prefer reliability over ultimate power in my trucks. The 7.3L in place of the TT 3.5L would fit that bill.

 

[davidl81]

I like engines that are reliable because I keep my trucks for a long time. If I bought a new truck every 3 years- I would not care what was in it.

Yes, I'd prefer a V8 for the sound, but it's not a requirement. I own 5 vehicles and only two have V8s. Two have 6 cylinder EcoBoost engines, one has the 3.5L and one has the 2.7L. I know both of my EB engines are more likely to have issues than my other vehicle's engines, since they are comparatively complex and have a bunch of parts that can fail that my other vehicles simply don't have. They are also more stressed- notably higher cylinder pressures and associated bearing loads. I also know they might just go to 150K+ miles without any issues as well- Ford doesn't build junk engines like Fiat. However, I know with 100% certainty that my 2013 Raptor will never have a turbo failure. The secondary timing chain will never fail. The camshaft will never separate into multiple pieces. The 6.2L is not bulletproof, but it's a HELL of a lot closer to it than any EB engine ever made.

I know, you paid a lot of money for your truck and your just HAVE to defend the purchase decision to the bitter end- I get it. But damn man, it's like you have some weird hatred for any V8 engine and a belief that that no V8 can ever match up to a turbocharged 3.5L Ford Cyclone engine. The 3.5L EB is not special in any way- it's a 90 degree DOHC V6 with a ton of boost thrown at it. It gets marginally better fuel mileage than a V8 making the same power, simply because it has 2 less sets of cylinder rings dragging up and down at light engine loads. A V8 at the same boost level would outperform it by a good margin. Everything a V6 can do power wise, a larger V8 can do better. N/A to N/A the V8 wins. Boost to boost, the V8 wins. The old rule always applies, there is no replacement for displacement. All other things equal, the ONLY advantage the V6 has is better fuel mileage at light loads and a smaller package.

So back to the can Ford hop up the 7.3L question. Yes they can. Can they out-power the 3.5L EB with the 7.3L N/A? Yes, even without boost. It still may not feel as powerful at the low end of the RPM range due to a lack of boost though. The low end boost is what people like about EB engines. Can they make the 7.3L destroy the 3.5L V6 in every performance aspect by putting some boost to it as well? Yes they can. Do we need that much power in a truck? Personally, I don't think so. I'm fine with my N/A 6.2L and it's lowly 410 HP. I've driven tuned Gen 2 trucks and they leave me with no desire to own one whatsoever, even though they are certainly faster and more powerful. I prefer reliability over ultimate power in my trucks. The 7.3L in place of the TT 3.5L would fit that bill.

FWIW I find it pretty remarkable how reliable the 3.5EB engines have been. When I bought my first EB F150 I was nervous about how hard they would be taxing a V6, but even with all of the complex parts that engines have been just as solid as any other V8 out there. I get your general point, there are less parts in a NA V8, thus less can go wrong. There is no debate to that statement. At the end of the day Ford felt as though the 3.5 HOEB was their best engine for the Raptor. If the 7.3 was ready when the Raptor was first made would it have gone in, now that is a question that could be up for debate. I just think at this point they are all in on the HOEB and if a Raptor were to get a V8 it would just need to be something that has a big jump in performance from the HOEB, not a modest jump like a slightly adjusted NA 7.3 would be.

 

[Geo_Tactical]

I like engines that are reliable because I keep my trucks for a long time. If I bought a new truck every 3 years- I would not care what was in it.

Yes, I'd prefer a V8 for the sound, but it's not a requirement. I own 5 vehicles and only two have V8s. Two have 6 cylinder EcoBoost engines, one has the 3.5L and one has the 2.7L. I know both of my EB engines are more likely to have issues than my other vehicle's engines, since they are comparatively complex and have a bunch of parts that can fail that my other vehicles simply don't have. They are also more stressed- notably higher cylinder pressures and associated bearing loads. I also know they might just go to 150K+ miles without any issues as well- Ford doesn't build junk engines like Fiat. However, I know with 100% certainty that my 2013 Raptor will never have a turbo failure. The secondary timing chain will never fail. The camshaft will never separate into multiple pieces. The 6.2L is not bulletproof, but it's a HELL of a lot closer to it than any EB engine ever made.

I know, you paid a lot of money for your truck and your just HAVE to defend the purchase decision to the bitter end- I get it. But damn man, it's like you have some weird hatred for any V8 engine and a belief that that no V8 can ever match up to a turbocharged 3.5L Ford Cyclone engine. The 3.5L EB is not special in any way- it's a 90 degree DOHC V6 with a ton of boost thrown at it. It gets marginally better fuel mileage than a V8 making the same power, simply because it has 2 less sets of cylinder rings dragging up and down at light engine loads. A V8 at the same boost level would outperform it by a good margin. Everything a V6 can do power wise, a larger V8 can do better. N/A to N/A the V8 wins. Boost to boost, the V8 wins. The old rule always applies, there is no replacement for displacement. All other things equal, the ONLY advantage the V6 has is better fuel mileage at light loads and a smaller package.

So back to the can Ford hop up the 7.3L question. Yes they can. Can they out-power the 3.5L EB with the 7.3L N/A? Yes, even without boost. It still may not feel as powerful at the low end of the RPM range due to a lack of boost though. The low end boost is what people like about EB engines. Can they make the 7.3L destroy the 3.5L V6 in every performance aspect by putting some boost to it as well? Yes they can. Do we need that much power in a truck? Personally, I don't think so. I'm fine with my N/A 6.2L and it's lowly 410 HP. I've driven tuned Gen 2 trucks and they leave me with no desire to own one whatsoever, even though they are certainly faster and more powerful. I prefer reliability over ultimate power in my trucks. The 7.3L in place of the TT 3.5L would fit that bill.

100% spot on

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[Jonny V]

I like engines that are reliable because I keep my trucks for a long time. If I bought a new truck every 3 years- I would not care what was in it.

Yes, I'd prefer a V8 for the sound, but it's not a requirement. I own 5 vehicles and only two have V8s. Two have 6 cylinder EcoBoost engines, one has the 3.5L and one has the 2.7L. I know both of my EB engines are more likely to have issues than my other vehicle's engines, since they are comparatively complex and have a bunch of parts that can fail that my other vehicles simply don't have. They are also more stressed- notably higher cylinder pressures and associated bearing loads. I also know they might just go to 150K+ miles without any issues as well- Ford doesn't build junk engines like Fiat. However, I know with 100% certainty that my 2013 Raptor will never have a turbo failure. The secondary timing chain will never fail. The camshaft will never separate into multiple pieces. The 6.2L is not bulletproof, but it's a HELL of a lot closer to it than any EB engine ever made.

I know, you paid a lot of money for your truck and your just HAVE to defend the purchase decision to the bitter end- I get it. But damn man, it's like you have some weird hatred for any V8 engine and a belief that that no V8 can ever match up to a turbocharged 3.5L Ford Cyclone engine. The 3.5L EB is not special in any way- it's a 90 degree DOHC V6 with a ton of boost thrown at it. It gets marginally better fuel mileage than a V8 making the same power, simply because it has 2 less sets of cylinder rings dragging up and down at light engine loads. A V8 at the same boost level would outperform it by a good margin. Everything a V6 can do power wise, a larger V8 can do better. N/A to N/A the V8 wins. Boost to boost, the V8 wins. The old rule always applies, there is no replacement for displacement. All other things equal, the ONLY advantage the V6 has is better fuel mileage at light loads and a smaller package.

So back to the can Ford hop up the 7.3L question. Yes they can. Can they out-power the 3.5L EB with the 7.3L N/A? Yes, even without boost. It still may not feel as powerful at the low end of the RPM range due to a lack of boost though. The low end boost is what people like about EB engines. Can they make the 7.3L destroy the 3.5L V6 in every performance aspect by putting some boost to it as well? Yes they can. Do we need that much power in a truck? Personally, I don't think so. I'm fine with my N/A 6.2L and it's lowly 410 HP. I've driven tuned Gen 2 trucks and they leave me with no desire to own one whatsoever, even though they are certainly faster and more powerful. I prefer reliability over ultimate power in my trucks. The 7.3L in place of the TT 3.5L would fit that bill.

EXACTLY....I spent near an hour looking over a Shelby Gen 2 and found no reason whatsoever to buy it. It's curious how these guys refer to us Gen 1 owners as "delusional clowns" when they're the ones who think that engine development starts and stops with the 3.5 EB. On a forum where no one is running a "stock" rig, they scream that we have to compare stock vs. stock....once modifications are thrown into the mix, any slight advantage they might have had disappears immediately. They're left with a bunch of nanny software and a rig that looks just like a regular F150.

 

[smurfslayer]

I like engines that are reliable because I keep my trucks for a long time. If I bought a new truck every 3 years- I would not care what was in it.

Yes, I'd prefer a V8 for the sound, but it's not a requirement. I own 5 vehicles and only two have V8s. Two have 6 cylinder EcoBoost engines, one has the 3.5L and one has the 2.7L. I know both of my EB engines are more likely to have issues than my other vehicle's engines, since they are comparatively complex and have a bunch of parts that can fail that my other vehicles simply don't have. They are also more stressed- notably higher cylinder pressures and associated bearing loads. I also know they might just go to 150K+ miles without any issues as well- Ford doesn't build junk engines like Fiat. However, I know with 100% certainty that my 2013 Raptor will never have a turbo failure. The secondary timing chain will never fail. The camshaft will never separate into multiple pieces. The 6.2L is not bulletproof, but it's a HELL of a lot closer to it than any EB engine ever made.

I know, you paid a lot of money for your truck and your just HAVE to defend the purchase decision to the bitter end- I get it. But damn man, it's like you have some weird hatred for any V8 engine and a belief that that no V8 can ever match up to a turbocharged 3.5L Ford Cyclone engine. The 3.5L EB is not special in any way- it's a 90 degree DOHC V6 with a ton of boost thrown at it. It gets marginally better fuel mileage than a V8 making the same power, simply because it has 2 less sets of cylinder rings dragging up and down at light engine loads. A V8 at the same boost level would outperform it by a good margin. Everything a V6 can do power wise, a larger V8 can do better. N/A to N/A the V8 wins. Boost to boost, the V8 wins. The old rule always applies, there is no replacement for displacement. All other things equal, the ONLY advantage the V6 has is better fuel mileage at light loads and a smaller package.

So back to the can Ford hop up the 7.3L question. Yes they can. Can they out-power the 3.5L EB with the 7.3L N/A? Yes, even without boost. It still may not feel as powerful at the low end of the RPM range due to a lack of boost though. The low end boost is what people like about EB engines. Can they make the 7.3L destroy the 3.5L V6 in every performance aspect by putting some boost to it as well? Yes they can. Do we need that much power in a truck? Personally, I don't think so. I'm fine with my N/A 6.2L and it's lowly 410 HP. I've driven tuned Gen 2 trucks and they leave me with no desire to own one whatsoever, even though they are certainly faster and more powerful. I prefer reliability over ultimate power in my trucks. The 7.3L in place of the TT 3.5L would fit that bill.

@goblues38 : Thanks for bringing the worst of 2017 back.
Yay you.
:-|

 

[xrocket21]

I like engines that are reliable because I keep my trucks for a long time. If I bought a new truck every 3 years- I would not care what was in it.

Yes, I'd prefer a V8 for the sound, but it's not a requirement. I own 5 vehicles and only two have V8s. Two have 6 cylinder EcoBoost engines, one has the 3.5L and one has the 2.7L. I know both of my EB engines are more likely to have issues than my other vehicle's engines, since they are comparatively complex and have a bunch of parts that can fail that my other vehicles simply don't have. They are also more stressed- notably higher cylinder pressures and associated bearing loads. I also know they might just go to 150K+ miles without any issues as well- Ford doesn't build junk engines like Fiat. However, I know with 100% certainty that my 2013 Raptor will never have a turbo failure. The secondary timing chain will never fail. The camshaft will never separate into multiple pieces. The 6.2L is not bulletproof, but it's a HELL of a lot closer to it than any EB engine ever made.

I know, you paid a lot of money for your truck and your just HAVE to defend the purchase decision to the bitter end- I get it. But damn man, it's like you have some weird hatred for any V8 engine and a belief that that no V8 can ever match up to a turbocharged 3.5L Ford Cyclone engine. The 3.5L EB is not special in any way- it's a 90 degree DOHC V6 with a ton of boost thrown at it. It gets marginally better fuel mileage than a V8 making the same power, simply because it has 2 less sets of cylinder rings dragging up and down at light engine loads. A V8 at the same boost level would outperform it by a good margin. Everything a V6 can do power wise, a larger V8 can do better. N/A to N/A the V8 wins. Boost to boost, the V8 wins. The old rule always applies, there is no replacement for displacement. All other things equal, the ONLY advantage the V6 has is better fuel mileage at light loads and a smaller package.

So back to the can Ford hop up the 7.3L question. Yes they can. Can they out-power the 3.5L EB with the 7.3L N/A? Yes, even without boost. It still may not feel as powerful at the low end of the RPM range due to a lack of boost though. The low end boost is what people like about EB engines. Can they make the 7.3L destroy the 3.5L V6 in every performance aspect by putting some boost to it as well? Yes they can. Do we need that much power in a truck? Personally, I don't think so. I'm fine with my N/A 6.2L and it's lowly 410 HP. I've driven tuned Gen 2 trucks and they leave me with no desire to own one whatsoever, even though they are certainly faster and more powerful. I prefer reliability over ultimate power in my trucks. The 7.3L in place of the TT 3.5L would fit that bill.

You got me all wrong man, I dont hate V8's at all!

I'm a numbers guy, show me the HARD NUMBERS.

More HP? More Tq? TQ at a lower rpm? Better gas mileage? IM IN

I dont care if its a inline 5, showwwwww meeeee the numbersssssss

Thats cool you prefer a poorer performing engine over your perceived issues such as reliability and complexity, Ill stick with hard numbers.


They come out with a hybrid and it puts out the numbers, then im in, I dont give a ****.

 

[Badgertits]

FWIW I find it pretty remarkable how reliable the 3.5EB engines have been. When I bought my first EB F150 I was nervous about how hard they would be taxing a V6, but even with all of the complex parts that engines have been just as solid as any other V8 out there. I get your general point, there are less parts in a NA V8, thus less can go wrong. There is no debate to that statement. At the end of the day Ford felt as though the 3.5 HOEB was their best engine for the Raptor. If the 7.3 was ready when the Raptor was first made would it have gone in, now that is a question that could be up for debate. I just think at this point they are all in on the HOEB and if a Raptor were to get a V8 it would just need to be something that has a big jump in performance from the HOEB, not a modest jump like a slightly adjusted NA 7.3 would be.

That’s how I feel. When I was driving a modded G8 GT dozen years ago one of the cars it “competed” w/ was the SHO- used to be that the SHOs would get tuned & boosted to all hell & then blow up, but over time I kept seeing the EB engines in more & more platforms, running in fleet vehicles particularly hard working police cars- F150 EB buyers outpaced V8 owners & when the Ford GT the. this gen2 Raptor debuted that’s when I decided to give a harder look.

If we’re talking V8s in general I prefer them- but as I’ve said a bunch of times, over the last decade and a half or so my feeling is Ford is MUCH more proficient at making their smaller boosted engines over traditional N/A ones- especially V8s

There isn’t a single Ford V8 - blown or otherwise - I’d prefer over ANY other comparable V8 from GM or Mopar....maybe even Toyota, OTHER than the flat pane voodoo which, while it sounds & performs great when running, is difficult to keep running that way & has issues.

We should be happy w/ the 3.5 EB especially how easy it is to make more power cheaply.

 

[dewalt]

A horse fed gmo oats would be the simplest , quickest form of transportation. I will take the complexity of an eb motor over that