2023 Torsen?

[Turning Blue]

I'll take the torque steer. Let's me know it's working. It's more about principle. Steady uping the price from every angle, making you buy options you don't want to get the one you do, then dropping options you paid for and insulting you with a small refund. Now, dropping an option without a word. If you want a low customer satisfaction rating, this is how you do it. Paid almost 15k less for my 2020 2 1/2 years ago for a better equipped truck. Glad I kept it.

I bought two Gen 2s, and didn't receive a Ford customer satisfaction survey after either purchase. They may not want to hear what is being said. You did a good job of summing up what we've seen since the 21 order banks opened.

I'm considering myself lucky to have my 22, which I was already planning to keep for a long time. Ford is definitely going backwards on customer service and satisfaction.

 

[Keith88]

Per Ford performance the front diff is..

“Open-ish It uses torque biasing and such by using traction control and brakes.”

so.... trash

 

[xlover]

Wow sneaky of Ford to axe that, confirmed for non R?

Was the Torsen replaced with anything or did Ford Performance confirm it’s now an open diff? Irritated to say the least.

i asked very specifically about the EB and referenced that it was publicly noted as not available on the R.

I am not sure how disappointed I am or if I am at all but I wanted an answer, to me that is the biggest error. They should have been upfront with what they did and why.
Here is my thinking (i hit on some of these above)
1. the purpose of the torsen was not low speed/rock crawling it was moderate/high speed loose surface maneuvering
2. The raptor R program obviously forced ford to make improvements to the front brake lock programming for the same situations the torsen would have been meaningful. I have not seen any feedback in reviews to date stating the raptor R is not capable enough because there is no torsen. (this could change)
3. I personally disconnect events like this from the pricing increases on the truck, when ppl were paying 10k ADMS for bare bones 800a and 25k ADM for 37pp, there is clearly more value in this platform and ford wants to capture parts of that. This issue is sometimes harder to factor in because of the asymmetrical pricing where one dealer can be 25 over and another at MSRP

 

[rlj676]

i asked very specifically about the EB and referenced that it was publicly noted as not available on the R.

I am not sure how disappointed I am or if I am at all but I wanted an answer, to me that is the biggest error. They should have been upfront with what they did and why.
Here is my thinking (i hit on some of these above)
1. the purpose of the torsen was not low speed/rock crawling it was moderate/high speed loose surface maneuvering
2. The raptor R program obviously forced ford to make improvements to the front brake lock programming for the same situations the torsen would have been meaningful. I have not seen any feedback in reviews to date stating the raptor R is not capable enough because there is no torsen. (this could change)
3. I personally disconnect events like this from the pricing increases on the truck, when ppl were paying 10k ADMS for bare bones 800a and 25k ADM for 37pp, there is clearly more value in this platform and ford wants to capture parts of that. This issue is sometimes harder to factor in because of the asymmetrical pricing where one dealer can be 25 over and another at MSRP

Well stated. Raptor pricing didn’t go up in a vacuum, people paid ADMs on Rav 4s for Christs sake. OEMs are always looking for best value proposition for themselves/customer. If $1k of material cost drives $100 of perceived value they’ll adjust.

The deletes of electronics features are not due to Ford choice but rather IC availability. They only give back what their internal calculated sales price on it is, and would rather sell you that feature.

I’ve worked at Ford, GM and currently for tier 1 electronics supplier …

 

[GordoJay]

….the biggest error. They should have been upfront with what they did and why.

Bingo. Hard to tell the difference between dishonesty and incompetence. Given past FMC marketing efforts, I’ll take incompetence for $1000.

 

[TomDirt]

Do we know if this can be added? What a kick in the nuts. I had no idea it was removed. I thought the R was the only one. This purchase is being met with more and more regret, everytime.

That's the version for the 2011 Gen 1. I think it was around $900 (with a 2 week backlog) in June. The install cost (when I carried in the diff) was around $250. They became standard equipment in 2012 ,

 

[FoxNotch]

Torsen was removed for 2023, info direct from ford performance

Pretty sneaky Sis, you have to assume that quite a few 23 orders were rolled over 22’s so Ford figured no one would question something like that so they wouldn’t get any pushback from consumers.

 

[shigman]

I guess it'll be interesting to see how the actual performance changes from 2023+ from the past decade+ of raptors. One thing the Ford engineers could have said during all the endless Raptor R discussions was that it wasn't just the Raptor R that lost the Torsen. They very very much made it seem like only the R would lose it. The engineers should have said when asked about the Torsen in the R, we actually dropped the Torsen in all 2023 Raptors.

 

[Zybane]

View attachment 392522
That's the version for the 2011 Gen 1. I think it was around $900 (with a 2 week backlog) in June. The install cost (when I carried in the diff) was around $250. They became standard equipment in 2012 ,

Who the heck is installing a new front diff for only $250?

I'm getting quotes for $2,500 labor.

 

[xlover]

I guess it'll be interesting to see how the actual performance changes from 2023+ from the past decade+ of raptors. One thing the Ford engineers could have said during all the endless Raptor R discussions was that it wasn't just the Raptor R that lost the Torsen. They very very much made it seem like only the R would lose it. The engineers should have said when asked about the Torsen in the R, we actually dropped the Torsen in all 2023 Raptors.

exactly... the press communication during the raptor R launch should have sounded like:
"The raptor R was too powerful for the torsen diff so we were not able to include it, the learnings in the raptor R development program showed us we could maintain similar performance without it. As a result, considering the adverse on-road experience with the torsen, we made the decision to go with a brake lock only system for all raptors 2023 forward."

instead we only got the first half of that leaving 2023 buyers ignorant of the change